In this episode of the Crying in My Cheesecake Podcast, Dr. Danielle invites Laura Swain to share her transformative journey into motherhood and homeschooling. Together, they explore the pressures and expectations that often accompany these roles, discussing how God’s guidance can reshape our identities and priorities. Laura reflects on her initial struggles with balancing her teaching career and motherhood, revealing the life-changing lessons learned during her “couch season” of healing and reflection. Their heartfelt conversation emphasizes the importance of savoring everyday moments, rejecting the cultural narrative of constant busyness, and embracing the profound significance of motherhood.
Laura Swain is a homeschool coach and founder of With Community, the membership for homeschool moms who want to do less with confidence. She practices homeschooling her own four kiddos The Born Learner Way in southwest Ohio where she gets a little better at gardening every year. She loves Jesus and helping Christian homeschoolers live out the freedom they have in Him.
Show Notes:
FREE: 7 Homeschool Questions: https://lauraswain.kartra.com/page/7homeschoolquestions
Follow Laura on Instagram: https://instagram.com/learnwithlauraswain
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Work with Dr. Danielle: https://l.bttr.to/Pc6aR
Work with Aria, NTP: https://l.bttr.to/PiTYw
Wilderness of Wellness: https://learn.wildernessofwellness.com/sp/adventurer/
Magnesium Glycinate: https://amzn.to/3S1S962
Email Danielle: hello@cryinginmycheesecake.com
Email Aria: hello@wildernessofwellness.com
Grab Danielle’s Activated Essentials to Reduce Oxidative Stress: https://cart.lifevantage.com/US/shoppingcart/share/2cbb8705-cfad-4083-b853-451db92d23db
Follow Danielle on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cryinginmycheesecake/
Follow Aria on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thewildernessofwellness
Transcription
Welcome to the crying in my cheesecake podcast where we are in pursuit of living life abundantly, not held back by our body size or symptoms, nor are we held back by our hurts, habits, or other obstacles in life. Learn the secrets to crush it in your health, wellness, relationships, and spiritual life. I am Dr.
Danielle, your host and practitioner. And this episode, I have a beautiful guest and I did not want to tell her what I was going to say before we started this because she has no clue what I’m about to say. Um, this woman has Okay, I gotta, I need to start back. I lived in Indianapolis before I moved to Southwest Ohio.
And we knew that we were going to homeschool our children. And so I started joining some homeschool groups on Facebook and just kind of seeing what homeschool culture was like. I didn’t know. I was a public school teacher. That’s all I knew. I didn’t know. And I also knew that there was really no culture of homeschool in Indiana and there’s no accountability, no nothing.
Um. Yeah. But I started doing this and then all of a sudden this gal named Laura started messaging me on these, on these Facebook groups. And I’m just like, okay. And she invited me to a Bible study group where it was, um, leading women or like basically like helping women learn to be leaders in their churches and teaching the word and how to approach God’s word.
Um, Appropriately and content or context over content and all of this and just helping women be more confident and I would say I’m I’ve always been a pretty confident woman, but there are some holes that we all have and I did not realize that she was also a former classroom teacher and I did not realize just how much she was into homeschooling and her passion and heart for that.
And then. I’ve gotten to know her a little bit more throughout the years, and realizing her heart for women taking the role, and not just women, but families, so her heart for families, for the youth, for raising kids in the ways that God has gifted us, um, has been truly life changing. I didn’t teach elementary school, I taught middle school.
And so I, I love middle school kids. They’re a different creature every single day. I love that. But elementary kind of befuddled me and she allowed me to over the time, chip away at the expectations I had on myself. As a homeschool mom, as a mom, as a wife, as a homekeeper, she allowed me to chip away those expectations that were not of God and what God put in me, put on me.
Also allowed me to be okay, I know this sounds really stupid, but allowed me to be okay with the fact that my daughter didn’t learn to tie her shoes until she was Much older and the day that she learned to I sent her a message and said, oh my gosh She did I was so excited I would have never I would have put so many demands on my child To learn something that she wasn’t ready for had I not met Laura I would have put demands on myself and probably have had a stroke by now Trying to keep up with things that were maybe good, but not good right now You Or, what have you, she has deconstructed my view of the way homeschool looked, the way life looks.
And it’s not just her, it’s God just, even my business, um, it’s God giving her the giftings of seeing things in me and seeing things in other people. I could not hold her back anymore. I’ve been trying to get her on the podcast and it just hasn’t worked out. Swain, thank you so much for being here today.
Thank you for being who you are. Thank you for Everything, and I am ready to share you with my ladies and listeners.
Thank you so much, Danielle. That’s really kind. You’re a sweetheart. I
just, I was going to say you stalked me on Facebook, but you didn’t, but you did. But also I feel like God did that. I feel like he grabbed ahold of you and like, you are not shy at starting the conversation.
Yeah,
loving pursuit. Yeah, loving pursuit. I love that. Um, do you want to tell us a little bit more about you? Not just my perspective of you, but do you want to tell us a little bit more about you? Um, and what’s gotten you where you are today?
Sure. Yeah. So, um, Like Danielle already said, I’m Laura Swain. And, um, Danielle, I’ve really enjoyed getting to know you two over the past few years.
I, um, taught in the public school for five years. And then after that, um, is when I started having kids and we knew from the beginning we wanted to homeschool. So we, uh, I left my teaching job to stay home when my oldest was born. That was 11 years ago. And so now I’ve been out of the classroom way longer than I was in it.
And it’s something that was really hard for me at first to think about giving up. I knew my whole life I wanted to be a teacher, and it felt like this was it. You know, calling that God had placed on my heart and when my husband and I, it was actually his idea of homeschooling was his idea and his conviction.
And so we, um, in the early years of our marriage had these walks around our apartment complex in the evenings talking about our life and God’s leading and children and everything. And I just sometimes it would get emotional because I thought, um, it was never like he, he said, yeah, you have to stay home and, you know, raise our kids.
But we, he talked about his heart for, um, raising up a family that honors God and loves God and how important it was to him for us to have, um, like a very solid influence in the lives of our children as we’re raising them. And so, um, God softened my heart. That was. I was first going to say the first miraculous work that he did in me to prepare me for homeschooling, but you know how he prepares us all along the ways, all along, all along our lives.
And so, um, he, it turned out to be one of the best decisions of my life, leaving the classroom. And I never would have been able to expect or plan for. All of the ways that God has given me work and like, quote, work, which to me wouldn’t have felt the same because it’s not, I’m not in a public school classroom, but he has given me no shortage of opportunities to teach and lead and the most important of which is here in my home with my children.
And like just how much joy there is. It doesn’t even feel like I used to feel like I was giving something up, but not anymore. It is, um, so precious, this work. And so we live in Southwest Ohio, um, on a little bit of land. We just got, uh, seven chicks. Like, I know you, Danielle, are really seasoned chicken, um, mama.
So, so, so. We’ve Yeah, we’ve had the chicks for three weeks now. Um, and we got a dog and a cat and, um, kids love to be outside. We feel I’m attempting every year. I improved my gardening game. It’s still got a long way to go. But, um, yeah, that’s that’s where we are and what we’re doing right now.
I’m obsessed when she sent me a picture of, or a message.
It wasn’t pictures yet. It was a message. I’m, I think, or so I’m picking up chicks tonight and I’m like, what? So I was so excited and I, they, welcome to chicken math. It will become real. Um, that takes a lot of self control and it’s, there’s no self control when it comes to chickens, but, um, One thing that I know you have a story about the word slow, and I am the opposite of slow.
I talk fast. I move fast. I do every, I mean, I feel bad for when you have to listen to my audio messages, but I talk fast. I think fast. I move fast. Everything I do is fast. And something I don’t do very well is celebrate. I mean, I just passed with 97 percent my board certification for being a naturopathic doctor.
And I’m trying, it feels awkward to celebrate that. And apparently it was one of the highest scores in the cohort as well. And I’m like, I should celebrate this, but it feels awkward. And anyway, that requires me to, it feels awkward, I think, because it requires me to slow down. And. in the past for me, and I know a lot of my listeners, a lot of people in this community, they understand when I say that God forces us into greener pastures, that he does, that we don’t go there willingly.
And for me, going slow has always meant I’m missing out on something. Something better must be on the other side, um, something I’m, I must be missing something or all these people need me or all this, like, I’m not keeping up with whomever, like, I could make up names, right? I’m not keeping up. I’m not keeping up with the expectation that my parents had on me.
Could you talk to us about that? Because you have influenced me massively. And I think there was a book you told me to read and it was like a really, really thin book about the homeschool mom or something. I don’t remember. It was very, very awesome read. But can you talk to us about your story of getting to this point of living a slower life, not full, not unfulfilled, but you know what I mean?
Like not slow. Like for me again, slow meant I was missing out on stuff. So what got you to the point that you needed to slow down?
Yeah, so I already shared a little bit about how I left my teaching career, and, um, it’s, for anyone who has experienced working outside the home, and then leaving that to be at home with like a newborn baby or young children, it is It’s just a very abrupt change.
It feels so different and, uh, like what you do in one setting isn’t the same way you can operate in the other. And I, I think the, one of the, I mean, there’s so many blessings of motherhood, too many to name, but one in particular that I think bears on what we’ll cover today is that stepping into motherhood is.
Taught me so much about the Lord and about, um, more deeply about his character. And, um, I, I’ve been fortunate to, you know, grow up in the church and I’ve been a Christian since I was young, but my maturity and my faith has accelerated so much as a mother, because these little people are depending on me.
And, I mean, just from the moment I held my, my, um, oldest, the moment she was born and they put her on my chest, I mean, I will remember that for the rest of my life. And, I became a different person, and fortunately, um, God hasn’t stopped working on me because he’s, he’s creating me, um, into a, into a better woman, um, a better daughter of his who looks more like him.
And so I started staying home with my, with my oldest, and then I, we had another, another kiddo two years later, and, um, I had a certain idea in my mind of what. like successful motherhood looked like. And I had, some of it was good. And then some of it was this holdover of, um, some idols that I didn’t even realize I had.
Um, I was attaching my worth to how much I achieve and finish. And I also thought that my significance relied on how much stuff I did that felt quote, important in the world. And so I was still learning that my motherhood. is significant, and that these, like, every day, you know, the diaper changes, the diaper laundry, the, the food, the, I feel like my whole life is food, you, I know you talk about that so much, um, when you’re a mom in the home, and, like, all of these little things, like, sitting around, it’s, it doesn’t look Like, the world wouldn’t say that is significant, meaningful, world changing work.
And so, because I had that idea in my head, I wouldn’t have said any of this out loud. I would have said I valued my role in the home. You know, I would have said, you know, I left my job because I feel God is calling me to stay home with my kids. I would have said all that, but I wasn’t living like it.
Because I had this like planner, I know you’re a type A planner, too, Danielle, and so it’s like, I believe that suddenly I had all this white space in my planner. Like before it had been chock full of like lesson plans and meetings and activities and events. And so it like all this white space meant that I had room for almost anything.
So I volunteered a lot. I Um, like didn’t ever say no, I like thought that I could be the head of every committee. Just so, just so much hubris and that, that like, I thought these people, you know, needed me to be in charge of everything. It’s just so ridiculous. Um, and I just ran myself ragged and didn’t even know it, had no idea.
Um, and in 2017, I had a freak knee injury, um, and I tore my meniscus and it was surgical. So I needed surgery. It was pretty difficult, like rough tear and I was in so much pain, like beforehand and then during the surgery and then the recovery, like I just like was on the couch a lot. I mean, I did my exercises and went to physical therapy, but I had this.
four year old and two year old.
We just, I just sat on the couch and I, I would read to them, but most of the time they spent was just playing and I felt so guilty about that and thought, okay, this is just a short season. I’m going to get back into things and, you know, be a better mom and do more stuff with my kids. Well, it was actually, I was telling my husband, texting my husband this, this, this morning, um, at the time that you and I are talking, um, it was exactly seven years ago.
Um, Uh, that we found out we were having twins.
Oh my goodness. And
I was pregnant. I was so sick. This is right, not long after the surgery that I got pregnant. And just like, so I was, Like weary from the injury, but then you know what morning sickness is like. I mean, I was just I had no energy Again, just laying on that couch could hardly get up.
My kids kept playing then I found out it was twins the pregnancy only got more and more changing as the weeks went on praise God They came into the world healthy Then you you know, I had twin newborns and it’s like every Every little chunk of this season, Danielle, I thought, okay, I’m just going to make it through.
I’m just gonna like, God help me make it through this. That was my prayer. Help me make it through. And then someday, like when this calms down, I’ll finally be able to get off this dang couch and live my life and do all these things with my kids. Um, and I thought that like what I was experiencing was getting in the way of me living or getting in the way of me homeschooling my children because that was also my oldest was four.
That was about the time when I thought, Oh, we need to start official school stuff now. No, could not do that when I was like getting sick every day or, you know, these different things. Um, staying up all night with these newborn babies that I was nursing and that season stretched on for three years. I call it my couch season because I was so physically depleted, like it was a wonder to be able to like unload the dishwasher and then that I was that was all I could do for several hours and being in that spot.
I like my pace was not my decision. I could no longer make, like, good or bad choices about how fast I was going. The Lord took that decision away from me because it was so clear, but like he had been, you know, prompting me and I did not listen. And so, by His grace, He, um, Hosea 6, 1 says, He has torn us that He may heal us.
Um, He has brought us down so He may lift us up. It’s talking about bringing, um, Israel into captivity, um, and exile so they could be healed because He had given them a choice and they had chosen not to. So like you said, He gives us the choice of the greener pasture and they, they rejected it. They rejected His blessing.
And I did the same and he, he said, okay, I’m going to make you, I’m going to bring you so low and it will change your life. And it has, I saw so much, so much beauty, everyday miracles that I would have missed. And, um, I relied on him instead of my own strength. And now I’m not perfect at it, but, um, because apparently I’m a bit of a slow learner because he took me through the season for three years.
And um, I’m so, so grateful that he did that for me.
I want to just, A, thank you for sharing that, but you have made so many points and I think something that stands out to me. is the lie of the season. I wonder if sometimes that we sit in and say, well this is just a season, as a way to rationalize why we are where we are.
And, and yes, there are things that happen seasonally, like we know that there are things that happen seasonally and we know that it’s going to be a busy season, for example, or like that kind of stuff. And we know that that’s coming. But the season, the lie of the season, sometimes I wonder if we stick in that and become like identity chained.
to what the season is because you had three years, your couch years. You had three of those and those could have, instead of turning to God, those could have become your identity. Those could have been, have become this space of the woe is me. And I’m not saying there wasn’t any of that. ’cause it we’re, we’re, oh yeah, there were some.
We’re gonna have, the woe is me a lot. Right? Like, we’re gonna sit, complain, it’s fine. Mm-Hmm, , it’s fine. We’re gonna do that. But the lie of the season of like, this is just what life is going to be. This is the, you said, um. You said that you knew and had all the right answers. This is the, you know, motherhood is significant.
I’m, I’m doing what I’m supposed to be. I know God called me to this, but then there is that piece of not living like it. Not acknowledging and I, I think God has called on me and we’re going to get here soon because I, the reason why I wanted to have this conversation is about this other topic I want to talk about it, but we’re leading into it of the whole gatekeeping thing, not living like it, not living like that.
We see God’s blessing and God’s word and God’s call on our life and then us choosing to surrender and like, that’s amazing that you even chose to surrender that we do this, right? But then under the guise of, well, this is just the season I’m in. But yet we don’t live like it. Our behaviors don’t match, or our thoughts and our feelings don’t match, where our brain is, like, logically saying we’re doing this.
And it reminds me, which I’m so grateful that I got to go through a naturopathic school that was a naturopathic school. Like all God honoring and pointing to God’s design of the body. Herring’s law of cure is about healing top down inside out vital organs before non vital organs. And I’m like, isn’t that God?
God is coming for us, top down, inside out, and vital versus non vital. And I think sometimes we forget, like, at least with me, in that chasing of the next thing, chase and not slowing down. I forget that while I’m being distracted and with something else, I forget the God who has put me in the greener pastures.
I forget to look at the blessings of the things that he’s given me in this moment, in this time, this injury, this rehabilitation, this, you know, obviously being stuck on the couch with two nursing babies and then two other toddlers that you’re trying to raise. It is a, it kind of slams the ego, doesn’t it?
Oh, man, it’s like those idols of significance and worth that like all these places I found my significance is just torn right out of my hands. Praise God, praise God for that, for my own good, and then for the good of my children that they didn’t like don’t have a mother who’s carrying on with, um, I mean, I have lots of other issues that God is working on me, you know, no shortage, but, um, my, my children.
are, would have a harder life ahead of them if they had a mother who was so, so closely, her identity is so closely tied up and how good she is at anything or how much she does or how fast she goes or how many people she helps. That is not it. My identity is one place, just one. It’s who I am in Christ.
That’s, there’s nothing that can take that away or add to that. Nothing I could do in this like that idea what you were saying about the lie of the season. I kept thinking like what I was in was like a pause. I had to press pause on my life or like this injury or the surgery or the twin pregnancy or anything.
I mean, this is humbling to admit, but even my children at times have felt like obstacles. to my life. Like, I have to put the rest of my life on hold or sacrifice or give up stuff so that I can do this other stuff. But no, this is my life. The things that I’m living are not getting in the way of me living.
The things that I’m living and experiencing are the life. And like, whenever I try and look for these different places or up ahead with discontent my heart, it’s like, I keep believing this like culture, school culture lies, what I call it. Um, In my homeschooling, um, teaching this lie, but it’s really about the culture at large, this lie that you should be somewhere else.
Like you said earlier, Daniel, I’m going to miss out on something. I’m going to miss an opportunity. Like you only live once. You’ve got to like seize the day and do all this stuff. And it’s like, no. Nobody has a fruitful life by seizing every single opportunity that comes to them because they would just fall into the floor in a heap.
They wouldn’t be able to enjoy or savor any of it. The, the true, we experience true joy in that carpe diem, like really the heart of it. Like we take it so literally seize the day, like I’m going to seize it every day. No, no, that’s not helpful at all. When we really take the heart of it, like I’m going to savor this day.
I’m going to savor this opportunity and really be full of gratitude. Where, with where God has put me, where I am right now, I’m here for a reason. I don’t need to be anywhere else.
So thinking about as you’re talking, I’m like literally seeing, um, women in my mind that are in my membership, the wilderness of wellness or their one to one patients.
And they talk about this, this identity. shift that happens when we become moms. And I think becoming a mom is very humbling. It is. We think that, so I explained to them, I’m like, when we are married, we can still technically be very selfish. We can still kind of live separate lives and then come together at night, you know, and do life together.
Right. But as soon as we have a child, someone is dependent upon us and the chemistry in our brains even change. We are in, like you were talking about when your oldest was laying on your chest, you were different. We are different as soon as that baby comes out. We are so different. And yet, there’s still pieces, there’s almost this mourning of what was, and when you were talking about coming out of the classroom, I had that period too, where I was just like, I mourned.
what I had thought I wanted to be, which was a teacher. And I’m like, Oh, irony. I’m still teaching today. Right. It just doesn’t look the same as the way we were classically trained to teach. But I’m like, everything changes. We don’t have a culture that teaches women that this is more than enough. This is like work that I guess.
the more like the morning season of the change, right? Like there’s this morning of who I once was this loss of identity, who I wasn’t, you know, who I, who am I now? How do we get to a place? How do we get people that are maybe not believers yet, or people who are fresh in the faith? How do we get them to feel secure in their identity in Christ and their trust in him that he will show up bigger than big and create this understanding within us that this is enough.
Being a mom is massive work and taking care of our homes, taking care of our husbands, taking care of that. How, how do we address that with, with, uh, this new culture with, you know, we were, we were, we started becoming moms before Instagram, TikTok, before social media was really like a thing thing. And I’m like, I don’t know how I’d be a mom, like how hard it must be for them right now to make that shift.
If they’re even thinking, like, I want to, I want to honor God and raise my kids. Or if they’re not quite there yet and they’re like, I want to raise my kids and I don’t want to feel that guilt. How do we start addressing that with them?
I think the thing, the thing that changed things for me was, is simply just beholding God.
And just looking at him, isn’t that, it sounds so simple. It’s not. No, but it’s like, and, and that’s, um, I don’t know. I think when I was still in that couch season, um, I, I wanted help. I mean, when I, when I was like alone in the rocker with the baby in each arm at night Reading on, like, not hours, but like minutes of sleep.
I was so desperate. Like he was the one I turned to, and he revealed himself to me in his word, and through the Holy Spirit, and in, like, in my circumstances, he opened my eyes to the blessings around me, and the more, like, I, I, I, Ever since that season, this is true for me today, the more I behold who he is, and I just have my gaze fixed on him, simpler it is to trust him.
It’s just so obvious. Of course, how could I not trust if, if God is, um, faithful, and then, like, you see, when I see his faithfulness very tangibly shown in his word, um, And I, I study deeply and just let myself be fed by the spirit through his, his own word. Like, how can I not trust this faithful God? If he is, um, sovereign and over all things, how can I not feel like, so, like, it’s such an easy thing to hand everything over to him because he’s able, you know?
Yeah. to hold it up. So, like, focusing on me and what I want to do and my own, like, flaws, my own shortcomings, like, because I’m a perfectionist, a recovering perfectionist, thinking, oh, I wish I were more anything. I wish I were more organized. I wish I were more disciplined. I wish I were more, you know, naturally patient.
Um, or eloquent or creative or anything that, you know, what rooted in that comparison that you were just talking about, then that’s gonna breed all kinds of discontentment and like futility thinking like that’s when I, you know, the mental health struggles come into play too. And that, you know, with all with physical symptoms, like you, you know, go through with your community, all of it’s connected.
All of that is rooted in this, um, my gaze being in the wrong place. And when my gaze is in the wrong place, then just things fall apart.
And that’s exactly where, when we are gazing at everything else, we’re looking, when we’re looking at what we could have. So let’s just, let’s just use the example, the tangible example of, um, chocolate cake.
I don’t know anybody that doesn’t like a chocolate cake. I mean, throw some ice cream. I don’t care. I don’t know anybody that doesn’t like a chocolate cake. You see the chocolate cake sitting there and all of a sudden you gaze at it It’s got your attention. It’s distracted you. And I don’t know about you, but sometimes chocolate cake talks to me.
And it starts to, it starts to speak a little louder. But guess what? My gaze comes back, doesn’t it? And then it might come back and then I might actually make a pass and get closer to it. And your point of where my gaze is fixed is what direction I’m going to go. If my gaze is fixed on TikTok, which I don’t have a TikTok, but if, if your gaze is fixed on TikTok and following all these mom influencers and you’re seeing their highlight reel, your gaze, you’re going to start heading to Target or other stores to start making your house look that way.
And you’re going to wonder why you don’t have the budget to do this, or you’re going to wonder why you can’t eat these certain things, or you’re going to have all of this, um, domino effect happen. Where all of a sudden you feel like an anxious spiral spin because you don’t have this picturesque life. I don’t know about you, but every time I look in scripture, I’m reminded that God chooses the Uh, not necessarily the most liked leaders, maybe the not, maybe the most unsuspecting leaders.
And I’m reminded that I can’t believe I get to be a mom. I get to be a leader in my home, like an influencer in my home, provide a safe space for my children so that they can have their vulnerabilities and access to me. That’s their goal. That’s the goal is for them to have access to me. I’ve made the mistake of letting.
People that are not my children have more access to me than my children. Yeah. And what does that do to me? Oh, wait, it causes me to come close to a stroke and have panic attacks because I’m not surrendered to my role that God has given me. All three of my kids, well, except for one were conceived with fertility.
And there was that, that to me, there was a time period I could not conceive and hold a pregnancy. Without God, literally without his hand over it. There was a time that I was so sad and weeping and crying out to God to give me the family. I’ve got the family. Why is everybody else and everything else so important?
I love what you said that achievement and worldly importance. Like kept slipping in and that was the rule. And I don’t know if that’s our generation. I don’t know if that’s just how we’re taught, but it’s like how many things outside of the home. I think that there’s an agenda to pull the woman out of the home and to keep her.
I do believe it goes back to Genesis three, um, that we are. wanting to constantly be in the place of the man and the leading and doing and providing and protecting when our role is actually not necessarily that we actually have a given role. And there’s a reason that we do feel stressed when we’re striving so hard because we weren’t given those hormones to do that.
And then that like moving into This idea. So you have, I think I, I think you have coined the term born learner. I think about this often. Anytime I start to doubt myself. in what I do, what I’m doing with my kids. Is it enough? Are they behind? Are they going to be, you know, with, you know, cause my youngest still is a, I’m not going to call it struggling reader.
He’s an, he’s now a not confident reader. So we’ve moved from struggling to now he’s just not confident in reading. But that boy can read every street sign out there and tell me which way we’re going and I’m like, boy, I just wish you would just do this in public. But when I’m concerned about my ability to raise my kids, to teach my kids, to learn something myself, which let’s be real, every stage of motherhood is learning something new about our kids and how to surrender that.
This born learner piece allows me to remember God and his innate design of us. Where did the born learner come from? How did you, where did God put that on your heart? How did that even transpire?
Yeah. So, in my couch season, um, when I was sitting on the couch, I got to, like, I got really good at noticing stuff.
And observing. I was terrible at it before, uh, because because when you go fast, you have to not pay attention to things in order to maintain that speed. There is no way like no physical way to notice everything around you when you’re moving quickly. And so, um, Um, on that blessed couch, I got to watch my children and I became a student of them.
And I, man, oh my goodness, this, like, I was just, um, watching a, uh, I just created a math training, um, a math for the born learner training for my membership. And I included this little snippet of my son back when he was four years old, um, playing, like he created what he called a popsicle course. It’s, it’s like, uh, it’s.
What, how he said obstacle course, but popsicle course, he says popsicle. He used to say popsicle or hopstickle. And so he was outside of the driveway and I have this crazy long video. It was like the video was like seven minutes, but I remember that day it was like he was out there for hours, four years old.
Like, you know, cool. Most kids that age, like you would say, don’t have a long attention span or they don’t have focus and it’s like when it’s the right stuff, they, they like can maybe even forget to eat because they’re so focused on something. And so he was creating this obstacle course and like dragging all these things out from the garage like this toy shopping cart and his tractor and his bike and the scooter and like he would say, Mommy, look, when I kick the ball, it goes over here.
And I mean, like, if you just. If, if you just sit and watch your kids for 10 minutes, whether they’re, um, six months or a year or 10 years or 15, you’re going to see them wonder about something or create something. It’s just who they are. So. When I was on the couch watching my two girls then, they, they began to play together, and they created such amazing experiences together, and it made me think back to when they, like, when they were even littler, like babies, and when the twins were babies too, I began to notice this.
Them reaching out or looking at, looking at you in the eye for the first time, their instinct and desire for milk and to be at the mother’s breast, all of these things that they’re just in like, we can see it in our chicks, not the same way because they’re not made in God’s image. But like when we see anybody new, like there is something in them that wants to discover and learn.
We see it mostly in humans because we’re made in God’s image. If we look back at Genesis one and two, our God is. massively creative. He created all of this out of nothing. And so it but he didn’t create it to just stay the way it was. He commissioned Adam and Eve. He made, he created Adam and Eve in his own image, and then he called them to go and create like him, to bear his image and to make more of this world that he made.
Like, I think that’s so cool. Like, God could have just made everything to stay the same and be perfect. All, you know, but he made this world. Like, in Genesis 1, it says he made, made seed bearing fruit. So he made fruit and trees and seeds with a capacity to bear seeds that had the capacity to make more.
Like, he made things to make more. He made people to make more and told them to make more and fill the earth. And so like this does like this. Capacity to learn and grow and create is something that he put in us and our, our ability to bear his image was corrupted by Genesis three, like you mentioned, but that like that design that he put in us is not gone altogether.
We still are His image bearers, and when we see our kids learning and making and discovering and exploring and asking those seven million questions when they’re two and a half years old, like, all of that is because of how He created us. And it is, He calls it very good, me’od. The Hebrew word is me’od.
Me’od, good. It means like the most something can be. It’s the most good it can be when we’re making more of this world that God told us to make more of. Amen.
Yes, I love that. You know, something that as you were talking that came to my mind was old dogs and new tricks. How often do we think or do we shrink or limit ourselves even that we can’t learn new things because what is, is just is.
And our God did not just stay put. He still does not just stay put. He’s got us on a sanctification process and we are allowed to grow and growing requires pruning and letting go of old ways and old habits. And I just, um, recorded a podcast episode talking about that, that we have to leave behind old when we die to ourselves and we have to prune things.
Like I think, like I always thought of pruning as pruning everything outside, like everything out. here. Never thought about pruning myself. Never thought about pruning my habits, my thoughts, my behaviors, my, like the things that I do, my belief patterns that are not necessarily appropriate, but we have to learn.
And I think the key word here is wonder. We have to wonder. What is not necessarily next, but what do I need? What does God want of me now? What does God ask of me now? And sometimes it is that let’s sit. Sometimes it’s get on that couch for a few and observe. Which is interesting that you said that you were not a good observer before.
I truly would not have ever thought that because you observe things so, you are so keen and heightened, like there’s a heightened attunement to observation of things. I’m just like, whoa, wait, you, you picked that up? Like, okay, like I need to slow my rear end down. That’s the Holy
Spirit work for sure. That is not something I’m naturally good at.
But I think that that I think it’s an excuse to say this is the way it is and let it be, as in, this is the way I am. This is the way it’s always been. This is how it’s going to be. Because I don’t know about you, but I serve a God that parted a dang red seed to dry ground. I serve a God and worship a God who can raise.
From the dead who chose me from before creation to be here. He chose me to get to live in the post resurrection time. He like, I get to live in the power of Jesus Christ. And I don’t think that Jesus was walking around to let us live dormant small. Um. live in the crud that we live in, whether it’s in our brains, whether it’s in our habits, our lifestyles, the way we, the people we surround ourselves with.
I think it’s important to think that we can learn new things. We I think go ahead. Go ahead.
I think it’s interesting because the way the rest of the world is the rest of the world says you have to do the big important stuff outside, but then that like you can be doing that. And then the same crud can be living on inside you.
Those those beliefs and thoughts about who you are. And this is just the way it is.
Yeah,
but Jesus, the work he does looks very humble and insignificant on the outside, very unglamorous, like the day to day faithfulness and fruitfulness does not look like anything special. But the inside work that he’s doing is just nothing we could expect or plan for.
And it just blows us out of the water in terms of, like, what we believe and how, like, how we operate. And, like, you said, radical faith that he, he can do literally anything, but, but when we, like, when we are so focused on outward significance, and at the same time, like, living in this same small inside our minds, like, I’m not the kind of person who can, you know, that kind of stuff, like you were just saying, it’s like, we’re not, we’re Certainly not.
And then that moves to this topic that really got me to, um, wanting to do this episode. We’ve given you, we’ve shared so much stuff so far, but gatekeeping. The word gatekeeping has been on my heart and I sent, I sent, uh, Laura a Voxer message one day and she used the word gatekeeping on something and I’m like, wait a minute, God’s been talking to me about gatekeeping.
And for me, I thought, like, for me, what God’s been showing me is that I’m the gatekeeper of my home. I, so again, it requires me to slow down. It requires me to keep I’m tapping into being a born learner because I am made in the likeness of God. So I’ve got to keep learning and not stay the same. And I need to gatekeep my home.
And I never thought of this before. And I’m like, wait a minute, I need to control what is coming in my door and what’s going out. I was like, Whoa.
I was, I was started thinking about the things I started letting in my home. I’m like, whoa, from between food. Okay, so food, people, thoughts, beliefs, jokes that are crude and not, I mean that are funny, but they’re not appropriate. Like, I’m just thinking of all the things I’ve started letting in my home. I’m like, uh oh, I have gone fast again.
And I didn’t realize. What kind, because this sounds so, I don’t know, this probably sounds some, somewhat old fashioned to some people or super crazy to some people, but I’m like, I don’t want my kids exposed to certain things out of protection. I want them to have the tools necessary to be able to face certain things.
out in public and not just make it, not just make it a political issue or not just make it, you know what I mean? Like not, not just chalk it up to politics, but actually say, this is spiritual warfare. I need to gatekeep as a way of protection, not as a way of the us versus them. I don’t know if that makes sense.
It does. And I think the reason it came up in our conversation previously is because, um, I went on a rant a little bit because there’s this very trendy thought out there right now. It has been for a while that, um, Um, and so gate, that, that word gatekeeping is used in a derogatory sense Yes. About people who, um, require payment for their information or services.
And so I, I see it all, I know you see it in the, like in the health and wellness world, um, especially on social media there. ’cause there are so many influencers who just give the stuff for free. I’m doing air quotes right now, . Um, and I see I am an avid gardener, so I see it a lot in the gardening world.
I’m homeschool coach. I see it in the homeschool world. And there’s this in these it’ll you’ll see it pop up in social media posts or in forums or in Facebook groups, free Facebook groups, where people will say, Oh, I get so tired of people gatekeeping this knowledge. It should be available to everyone, like how to build a sustainable garden or have a small homestead that should be like, that’s such a good.
useful thing. There’s so many people who need that. It should be available to anyone who wants to learn about it. Or homeschooling. Anybody who wants to homeschool should learn about, like, how to do this. There shouldn’t be anybody gatekeeping information or knowledge or charging for it or with being well.
Like, everyone deserves to be healthy and well. And to that I say, You can. You can go out there in the world of literally infinite information and have at it. You can go through it if you want to wade through, like, millions of hours of information. and millions of words of information. And if you want to bear the, like, as a novice, as a novice, um, like person who’s trying to be more healthy or as a novice homeschooler or a novice gardener, the, the challenge is if we are novices, and this is true for our children who are growing up in our homes, they’re novices at being human, right?
Um, when we are novices, we lack wisdom. We are growing in it by the grace of God and like if we, you know, have humble hearts and have, um, good leadership in our lives and are yielding to the Holy Spirit, we grow in wisdom. But there are other people who have more wisdom than we do and more experience than we do.
And they are the ones. that it is prudent to trust them in saying this is bad information and that over there is better information and this over here is the best way to do it. And like, how much faster and more fruitful is our growth when we have someone gatekeeping knowledge for us? When I, like, when I trust people to lead me, I do not want them to give me all the information all at once.
I do not like, like, just. I do not want people to leave me and say, okay, go do a Google search and see what you find. No, it’s not, that’s not going to help me in my, in like, when I’m learning and like, learning how to lead my family or do other things. I don’t want to go wade into the, the World Wide Web of, Like helpfulness, you know, another air quote, like all these helpful tips and tricks like that is, that is, I think a lot of the women who come to you, right, Danielle, they’ve tried so many things.
Yep. And it hasn’t worked, has it? Nope.
Nope. And that gatekeeping of like, I do have like when. People join the wilderness of wellness that the phase one of my success path is about the mindset. I have people that will send emails and like, I thought I was going to lose weight and start learning how to eat right away.
I’m like, okay, that’s cool. Did that work first? It didn’t. So that’s why phase one is not about the habits. If you want to start the habits, that’s what the monthly challenge is for. But it’s like that piece that we think that we are ready for so much more. There’s no protection. From ourselves. And that’s what gatekeeping is.
It’s protection against ourselves. That’s what surrender is. That’s what asking for help, like your coach or your mentor or your practitioner or whatever it is should be there to gatekeep you. And that’s what I tell my, as soon as I go and hire somebody, I’m like, Protect me from myself. I’m going to trust you.
And I need you to lead me in the next best step because I will go above and beyond. It’s that perfectionism thing. It’s that first child thing. It’s that, you know, constantly got to move and do things. I need protected against myself. I know, even though that I am a practitioner, I need practitioners to take care of me because I am not unbiased.
I am biased. And I am going to have, I’m going to come to the table thinking I know one thing, but really, I have missed all these other steps. And while I can’t, of course I could take care of myself, but it’s, it’s, I would say more responsible and more mature to have someone gatekeep information from me and give it to me when I need it.
And I think so
much more helpful. It’s like, it’s so much more empowering too, isn’t it? To be able to experience success more quickly. And to have those quick wins where, like, your leader or coach or practitioner says, I’m looking at what you’re doing, and this is the, this one thing that, oh gosh, it’s so hard, isn’t it?
To think of, like, doing less is accelerating us forward.
That’s,
again, that’s another thing that’s the opposite of what the world says. Back when I was talking about my life before, going fast, doing more, thinking the more stuff I check off my list, the more important or more loved I will be. It’s like, no, like weaning things out, let’s say, let’s shove the whole rest of the internet to the side.
You don’t need it. It’s not helping you and this like this one small thing is the thing that’s going to help you move forward and like you said that we could do like do that well in our homes to as moms like say like you said this is all the stuff there’s a ton of stuff. I do not want in my home. I didn’t want not want my kids have their entire adult lives to be in the world.
Yes.
I don’t want them to be inundated with crap. I want to build them up and fortify them with their faith in the Lord first, and then bit by bit have them try that out so that I can help them. And then one day, they will be able to be a gatekeeper in their own home. But that day is not today.
No. And that’s something too, I, and I don’t know if you want to touch on this, but, you know, there are, Some people that say that we need to be, um, we need to offer our kids, uh, the opportunity to go to public school or to be in, in their schools and, um, they, they can be the light, they can be the salt and the light, um, in the schools.
And for me, that never sat right. My kids aren’t mature enough to know what being salt and light is when it comes to what our kids are experiencing right now in their classrooms and that courage to gatekeep some of that information and to, um, to gatekeep them from that until they’re ready, they can be salt and light in other places that they are prepared for.
But they don’t have to go into a space where even things that you and I don’t even have, have never experienced. You know what I mean? Like they’re, they’re facing things that we have never had to face. I don’t know if every generation says that, but yeah, I, I
totally agree. I think, um, I think it’s hard.
Lots of people will say homeschool is not right for everybody. You know, you could do you do what’s best for your family. And I believe that it’s the responsibility of each family to weigh the information and decide, like decide how God is convicting them. But I do I do not think that, um, there’s people that homeschooling is bad for.
I think, like, it, it can’t be bad for us, like, parents to, um, honor God’s word. Like interesting and like the stewardship that God has called them to to steward their kids Well, um the time that you have to be able to invest in your kids I’m sending an email out to um to my email list today about our new dog And I did I mention the dog earlier?
We just got a dog also along with the chicks and it’s like we have room like when we talk about going slow Doing less, reflecting with eyes that actually see our lives instead of missing this beauty that’s right in front of us and thinking like, oh, like, I say so much, like, I don’t want to be the mom who is an empty nester and thinking and the only time that I enjoy my motherhood is when I’m looking back on memories from the past with nostalgia.
I don’t want to have nostalgia fueled joy. I want joy right now, where God has put me right now, and the thing I love about homeschooling is that it is so natural for us to be able to do less, um, slow down, really see and have space for things like chicks and a dog, or like it could be, it doesn’t have to be that for you, but it could be anything, like there, there are a lot of Um, joyful opportunities for connection and growth and learning it for different families that they say no to because their life is so packed full.
Yes.
Um, and when we have more margin and like have that slower pace, fewer things, then we get to like, just enjoy each other and enjoy this beauty, beautiful life that God has given us right now where he’s put us.
And I love our mentor. We share a mentor together. And, um, she even pulled her kids out of school and they’re doing homeschool.
It looks different than, you know, either the way that Laura or myself are doing, but they’re still doing homeschool. And, um, it’s beautiful to see that transition and the connection between her boys and her and her husband. It is. Like in the joy, like that is so you cannot buy that you cannot, um, create that with an organized calendar that is, it just is natural.
And I think for me, like what I see and it’s, and it’s in me too, like I’m a very prideful, like that’s one of my biggest issues is pride. Um, but I’m a very prideful person and, um, I, see other women also that struggle with the idea of even homeschooling. It’s like, well, they’d the problem is that the mom doesn’t want to change and surrender to that role.
And it’s that, that what we just talked, like what we talked about circling around back to the beginning, it’s that need for, I need mom time. I need me time. I need, um, to look like I’m achieving something. I need to look like I have significance and importance when, um, Someone has told us, told them that a mom is not enough and even,
oh, sorry.
But no, it’s okay. The, the world it’s in those like feeling that conviction and calling, but then the hesitation, the only reason there’s that hesitation is because of what the world is telling us to do. Just. My friend, the world is always wrong. We can always count on the world to be wrong, right? We’ve seen it in scripture and in our, in my own life, every time without fail, I think I’m going after something good.
Like if, when I listened to the, what the world said, the world says, Oh, that holds it up in front of you. This is good. This is what it means to be successful. This is what it means to be fulfilled. This is what it means to be loved or cherished. They’re wrong. Every time. Like, there isn’t, there is no way they’re ever right.
And the Lord’s way seems upside down, like his upside down kingdom seems so weird and crazy. But it’s always, always good. It’s always good. It’s never disappoints. He never leads us to a bad place, even if we’re in the middle of suffering. He never, ever leads us into disappointment or, or something that’s going to be wrong for us or hurt us for, for eternity.
He’s leading us toward our home in heaven and then he doesn’t wait to bless us till we get there. He’s blessing us right now. He gives us his own spirit right now and he gives us so many, um, Like, so teaching right now, he gives, he like leads us and provides for us and all of it is good.
Yes. So that’s funny that you even, that you went this way because I got a text message from someone I’m discipling and I’m leading her to Christ and, um, she sent a message and says, I guess my question is, where do I start?
I know that sounds really silly. You talk about being called to do things and feeling the presence of God. How do I get there? And she’s a new mom and she is also feeling that pull that, you know, the natural pull to being home more and, and so forth, but also the need for finances in the home and things and, um, and she’s like, she wants to know.
So what would your response be? How would you speak to her in that way? wanting to, or, or understanding how do I get there? How do I get there? Where do I start in feeling the presence of God and feeling called and hearing him?
I said, open up your Bible and ask him to help you understand it. That’s really the simplest.
I know that’s the, the churchy answer, but it’s like his word, just like I said, everything about God is good. His way is good. His word is good. And his word says it never returns void. So it’s not, um, and I would say, like, don’t open it with this like mystical Ouija board, like, what? But is God telling me yes or no about this thing?
Or is he telling me It’s like, just look at him. Yeah. Just get to know him. Yeah. And, and also, I would say that that’s That’s one thing, to open his word and ask him, his spirit, say, Holy Spirit, help me understand this, give me wisdom, soften my heart and, um, help me to love you more. And the second thing is, to release this, I think my, my, Streak of perfectionism made me sometimes goals can seem overwhelming if I have this future vision of what I want my life to look like or what I want to be like, or like, I have this idea of where I want to go, and I think, like, I wish I could just be myself there, like, I wish I could just be that now, and, um, I think that, like, reducing that to just, you know, One step at a, like, just to know that that, the way that happens is by taking one step at a time, um, humbling myself and realizing that, like, growth means, like, I, I frequently say to homeschool moms, to learn something, you have to start out not knowing it, otherwise it’s not learning.
So, like, to grow into someone, you have to start out not being it. That’s why it’s called growing. Yep. And so that, that understanding that you’re a born learner and that you will grow into that with like small faithful steps is gonna help prevent overwhelm, I think.
Yep, I agree. I love that. And with that, can you talk about your community that you have, um, that just like supports this idea of being a born learner moving through life slow, slow enough, not so slow that you’re not moving, but slow enough that you can hear God and hear his presence and be reminded of who you, who you are and raising and homeschooling your kids.
Um, there are a lot of women in my community that. Um, have looked to homeschooling and wanting to homeschool or are homeschooling and just feeling that, you know, that not being around other people that are homeschooling. So they kind of feel isolated and alone and just not sure what that looks like. Can you talk about your community?
Sure thing. Um, so I have a membership called With Community, and it’s called With because of, um, I believe in the power of, um, the Holy Spirit dwelling with us, and then also the power of Him putting us in community with other people, um, especially when you’re doing something that’s super weird that the world says is crazy.
Um, doors next open in November, and I’m going to have a free event in November. Um, called three reasons why your homeschool is going wrong and how to fix it. Um, I don’t have anything, signups ready for that yet, but I do have a free resource for you that could help take you, like, that, um, overwhelmed text you got from, your disciple.
Um, I do have a free resource called, um, seven homeschool questions to ask instead of am I doing enough? And so we have this pervasive worry as homeschoolers or potential homeschoolers of what if I’m not doing enough? What if I fail my kids? What if we fall behind? None of these questions help us. They keep us immobilized, don’t they?
And they make us, like, Just keep us from progressing and moving forward. And so I have this awesome resource that gives you seven questions that will actually help you instead of those unhelpful ones. And I also have a video walkthrough and then a free mini course that goes with it. The Born Learner mini course that helps you reorient your mindset away from this school culture mentality that you have to deal with.
Do more and achieve more and go fast in order to be successful, um, to really internalize this truth that you are a born learner by God’s design, and so are your children. And when you live like one, you can experience fruitfulness and peace in your homeschool. And so you can get that freebie at learnwithlauraswayne.
com and you can find me on socials at learnwithlauraswayne if you want ongoing support that way too.
Thank you so much for being here, Laura. I just enjoy our conversations. I enjoy the accountability and pointing to Jesus in all things and whether it’s implicit or explicit, whether it is, um, just. It is all exuded in who we are and the more we stay surrendered, the more we lead well.
And I’m just so grateful that you came on here to help lead these ladies that listen here, this community, um, and also in my newsletter and so forth. Um, all of the information will be in the show notes for Laura and even her launch coming up of the open doors. Um, and the, you said there was going to be, um, A workshop, uh,
yeah, that free workshop.
And if you, if you grab that freebie that I mentioned, you’ll be added to my email list or if you follow me on socials, you’ll get to see that announcement coming up. Um, so yeah,
perfect. Well, we will see you in the show notes and please go give Laura a follow. I promise, even if you’re not a homeschooling mom, you’ve got to go follow her because she will be inspiring on just living the day to day life as a Surrendered follower of Jesus and just pointing you in the right direction of in in her own view and the only way that God has shown her just pointing you as well on just to stay surrendered and that we are going to be living counterculture or counter cultural.
So thank you so much for being here today. Yeah.
Thanks, Daniel.
Thanks for listening to the cry to my cheesecake podcast. I hope it encouraged you to make the next best step for your health and wellness. Take a look at the show notes for more information or other links mentioned in the episode. And if you got to this point, come find me on Instagram at crying to my cheesecake and send me a DM.
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